Can a privately owned internet board control what you say?

Can a privately owned internet chat board, namely Mothering Magazine's forum, MDC, control what its members say on their websites and blogs? Apparently, they think they can. They think that their user agreement gives them the right to dictate what members say about anything on their own blogs and websites. Users are allowed to link, for free, to their own private websites and blogs but nothing in the user agreement explicitly states that these websites and blogs are under then control of MDC. However, this blog was recently questioned by the administrator of MDC, Jacqueline Savageau (thetofumom@comcast.net). Here is her email to me and my response.


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I'm sorry you feel that way. Of course you have freedom of speech that’s a basic human right. However, this is a privately owned board and our rules are in place to keep the peace and maintain Mothering Magazines core values.

Honestly, I have no issues with your blog and I'm glad you've found a venue to vent your frustrations. What I don't understand, is why you would link to it on a website you come to frequently and think that's ok?

You asked in your last PM how linking to your blog violates the UA, I think the following 2 rules were broken by linking to your blog.

[QUOTE]5. Posting to invite members to other online discussion and posting venues for debate purposes or posting about discussions elsewhere online. This is to maintain and respect the integrity of our own and other communities.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]7. Posting to discuss the statements or behavior of a member or members on the board, or to criticize another discussion on the boards. Such issues should be directed to the moderator or administrator privately and not made a subject of discussion in a thread.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry your not feeling comfortable on MDC but I wish you well and hope you'll find an on-line community that better suits your needs.

Gently,

Jacque

My response:
Dear Jacque,

What I have found over the past two plus years at MDC is that I am never alone in my thinking. I am not so full of myself to think of myself as unique. My views are generally shared by others and if you read the comments to my posts on my blog there are many in agreement with me. That being said, I am not going to be alone in believing that mothering magazine has no rights whatsoever over anything that anyone writes on their blogs. If I did business with MDC, then my business website could be open to scrutiny and my private one could persuade people to patronize, or not, my business. But, my private thoughts on my private blog are my own business and there are no rules the mothering can use to block anyone from saying anything they want on their own site. Also, there is nothing legal, I believe, that mothering can do to control what a person puts on their website. If you do not want me to link to my blog, that is your right as a privately owned website. But, please do not attempt to make it seem like I broke any MDC rules. Your rules have no control over what I write on my blog. And, if you think that you can delete people's signatures just because others do not like what is being said on their websites, then you also are believing yourself in possession of much more power than you really possess.

I am considering doing some research into the legality of the MDC User Agreement. Yes, it is a privately owned board but it seems that mothering has taken things too far.




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So, my question now is to wonder whether this is legal? I wonder how much control privately owned boards really do have over the content their members post? I know that employers own their employees work email and computers and therefore own anything that is done on that email or computer. But, this is a privately owned, publically acessible website. How much right do they really have over content? How much right do they have over what goes on outside their servers?

And, is it really in their best interests to pick and choose who they are going to say is upholding the integrity of the community and working to make it a comfortable place? How do they decide this? It is entirely subjective and not all members agree with what they decide. In fact, many members have great problems with their user agreement. Hmmm....makes me realize why more and more old time members leave every year that the user agreement is tightened and control is heaved more upon members.

Post your name or shutup

Those of you who think you can get to me by commenting anonymously are just scared babies. Either say what you think with your name, so I could comment back to you if I wanted and we could have a discussion, or shut up.

I am done with censorship

Here is what I wrote as a goodbye private message to the administrator at motheringdotcommune:

You know what, I am just going to leave the board. This place used to be a nice place to post and then the user agreement got tighter last year and a whole bunch of great mamas left in disgust. Now it is even tighter, infringing upon our rights if you ask me, and you expect me to find it reasonable that you have control over my blog? If I don't do what you want, you are just going to ban me so I am leaving. I will continue to write about this on my blog, in peace, knowing that I live in a country where freedom of speech is guaranteed and I can write what I want.


I do not fault you, just the system you have inherited.

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What kind of a place can control your private blog from their site? What even gives them the right to try? Basically, these hippy, crunchy mamas at motheringdotcommune who object to my blog do so because it is not in keeping with their line of thinking. If you do not tow the party line, you cannot post there. A woman posted recently that she shops at Walmart and voted for GW Bush, which I would smack her for if I could, but apparently that is allowed but questioning anything that is "NFL", according to whoever makes those rules, is not allowed. Does anyone not realize that what makes humans great is the ability to discuss different opinions and exist within different parameters without going to war over the differences? When we do go to war, it is some pathetic attempt at control. What is happening to me is a narrow-minded individual sanctioning against me in an attempt to thwart my right to say what I want. There are some crunchy people who call themselves that and are great, open-minded, honest, healthy. And then there are those who are controlling and get offended if you don't live the way they live. If you don't do things their way, they get offended. Like religious people who are offended when you don't practice their religion, these types limit their experience of the world and make it a worse place for themselves and the rest of us to live because they cannot tolerate different opinions than their own.

Those who are fearful run those who are not away. This is how they protect themselves.

Sad.

Censorship or right to control?

So, I have been asked by the powers that be at one of the parenting boards I chat at to remove the link to my blog. Comments have been made on this blog that are against what I have written about (mothering boards suck) and people apparently find it offensive enough to complain to the powers that be. But, is this censorship or does a parenting board have a right to control what you link to? Just because I wrote something that some members of the board do not like, does that give them the right to control what I have to say and write? Just because it is their site on which I have the link, does this mean that I have to do what they say?

I believe it is censorship and I think I am going to quit that community. You cannot post there anymore without fear of having your words taken the wrong way and censored. And, apparently, they now own our words which seems completely out of line and completely out of character with the intention of the site.

How is it that intelligent people cannot handle being asked a question? Why do they have to have their way? I do think they are as intelligent as they make themselves be if they cannot handle a little disagreement.

Mothering boards do not suck. Motheringdotcommune sucks.

Should we have a healthy halloween?

Is it reasonable to think of having a healthy halloween? This is the first year that out little one is fully aware of all the fun. She has even realized, only recently, that candy is actually good. And, she went grocery shopping with her father last weekend and discovered chocolate eyeballs and candy corn. Should we limit candy intake during this season, go to the halloween party at the community food coop (the healthfood store) or go all out and trick or treat around the neighborhood and hit up the mall for more goodies? (they do trick or treating downtown and at the mall). Should we stick to our guns with nutrition or let her have a bit of fun? It is not just once a year. There is also Christmas candy and Easter candy and her birthday.

I am in favor of just letting her have some fun but brushing her teeth often and supplementing the candy bash with organic pears and carrots whenever possible. But, then, why do I feel guilty?

Amtrak is fun!

At least we thought so. I have heard people complain about the food and the dinginess and the constant lateness but for us these were not issues. Compared to car or plane travel, Amtrak felt much more civilized and comfortable. The seats in our sleeperette were much wider than a plane seat and the two folded down to one comfortable bed. The little one slept up above in a bunk, which her three year old self found fascinating. There was even a safety net so she did not fall out! The food was pretty good and included in our fare. It was actually cooked and reasonably nutritious, a huge difference from plane food and a major improvement over fast food. The kiddy room was a disappointment to me (it was loud and did not have many toys) but the little one lovevd watching Brother Bear 2. How she heard it is beyond me but she enjoyed it and I met an interesting mom to chat with. We slept well and our train was only 90 minutes late going down. It was on time returning!

The only thing that had me concerned was that another parent of a three year old let his rambunctious child get away from him at a stop in Kelso WA. The train pulled away before mom and dad realized where their child was! The train cannot go back so they had to call the station to arrange for some transportation, on mom and dad's dime, to their final destination. Yikes! Makes me glad my child is only talkative and not a runner. Kind of makes me think there is something to think about with those child leashes. At least you would not lose your child at at train station!

Amtraking it across the country.

Today we are packing for our first long distance trip since our little one was born 3 years ago. As I hate to fly, will not fly, will never, ever fly, we usually drive to visit relatives. This trip would take 3 days driving so the little one and I are taking Amtrak. It takes longer than driving but we can get up and walk around, sleep in a teeny bed, and supposedly they have a children's playroom. For a little girl obsessed with vehicles, this is a dream come true. We will be gone two weeks, so look for future posts to detail our journey.


Ah bientot!

Oh for crap's sake, fix it already!

So my internet, phone, and television are all serviced throught Comcast. We thought they had great reception, little problems, and the price was right. Until last week when the damn thing starts acting up. At any given time of the day, we may have only one or possibly none of the services actually working. I have called the customer service, from my cell phone already, and have been told the reboot the moden (done countless times to no avail), move the wifi thingy, unplug the wifi thingy, plug the modem into the wall instead of the surge protector, and have had one service guy out here (on a Sunday!) and have another one scheduled for tomorrow. The latest round of customer service chatting, the guy actually had the balls to tell me "you told me that already" which is rather nervy considering I am the customer and he is supposed to be making me happy, not the other way around. Then, he tells me that it sounds like my electrical wiring is the issue and I may have to call an electrician. To that, I thought to myself, I could say so much snarkiness as he is, in fact, working at a customer service line and no doubt making far less than money an electrician. If he actually knew anything about electrical wiring, he would not be sitting in an office on a Sunday answering customer service calls. But, I kept my mouth shut because I really wanted him to book a service appointment for me as soon as possible.

After spending sooo much time on hold, waiting to get my appointment set up, my lovely husband informs me that I am being given the run around because I am a woman. To that, I am thinking "so why didn't you call then!" but I kept my mouth shut in the interest of household peace. Then, he gives me some tips about how to handle the service guy (presumably a guy) who will come tomorrow. As I listen, I am thinking that it basically entails being an asshole. I can't imagine myself doing that. I can see myself getting whiny and bitchy or perhaps suddenly inept and helpless. The latter actually works well with macho types. But, why can't they just fix the damn thing without me having to go through all this run around? I mean, it is not rocket science; it is a computer system. It can be fixed. I have fixed computer systems. I have seen them be fixed. It can be done.

If it can't then I am cancelling the service and getting satellite.

Is 3 old enough to be political correct?

Today I have been thinking about political correctness and the war to persuade us to do what is "correct." I read this NPR piece about the book Searching for Mary Poppins. The excerpt about looking for a "mammy" in Chicago got me thinking: Why is it all right for a woman of color to write this? If a white woman went searching for a "mammy" that would be considered racist. I don't have a problem with this realization but how do you teach this to a child? How do you explain to a child that a person of color can go looking for a nanny of color and use a term like "mammy" which relates to slavery and is considered derogatory but a person who is white cannot do this? How do you explain political correctness to a child? And, when do you start? At what age? What if a mama of color had a nanny she referred to as "mammy" and my child played with this child and picked up on this? What would I do? I cannot explain to a three year old that it is not all right to call a caretaker mammy. I could explain this to a 10 year old, for sure, but not a three year old. But, at what age can you start explaining this stuff?

Of course, we could go on and on about being respectful and setting a good example and being a role model, blah, blah, blah........ but we all know that regardless of what we say and do our children are going to develop into individuals. My parents are politically conservative, neo-libertarians and both my brother and I are as staunchly liberal as you can get, in both life and politics. But, still, I find it hard to be politically correct all the time. Being respectful is about the most I can muster on a regular basis and I've been accused, a few times, of not doing as good a job with that as I could.

And activism? How on earth do you explain to a child that she cannot throw pig's blood on a perfect stranger (or anyone, for that matter) but that PETA doing so to rich ladies in fur is not rude but a political statement? At what age do you start teaching a child that some people refer to how her daddy's penis looks as genital mutilation even though it functions just fine, thank you very much? Or that some mamas will not buy the cheese crackers she loves because there was a mention on the maker's website of Dr. Richard Ferber, he of the cry it out fame?

When I was a teacher, I found it very pretentious (of parents) to train their children to make statements like "I won't eat another sentient creature" or crap like that. In first grade, they do not understand what they are saying. But, by 5th grade (the other grade I've taught), they do.

So, the question is, when do you start teaching children your political beliefs and at what age to do you expect them to understand, and not just quote, what you say? My own three year old has been referring to GW Bush as "butthead" for as long as she has been talking, at her father's prompting, but she does not understand what that means. She loves "the yellow people" (The Simpsons) but she is too young for Beavis and Butthead. She loves the Pixar movies but does not understand the nuances of the jokes. When will she? And, when she does, how to we impart our beliefs on her so she can be polite in mixed company but that she can also develop and grow her own personal will?

Parenting is a bitch.

Bowling?

So I joined a MOMS club group. Since we just moved and I don't know anyone and I don't work (well I do work in my house but I can only get so much stimulation out of conversing with a three year old), I figured this would be a good way to meet other moms who don't work. MOMS night out was last night and we went bowling. At first I was not going to go (I mean, bowling?!?) but then I decided that loneliness prevails over snobbery in my world and off I went to the bowling alley on a saturday night. Being as this is a small city in a rural county, it was actually crowded. And, it was fun. None of us bowl well and after a few beers nobody cared. We shot the shit about the whacky religious groups in the county and the foils and fun of a wedding in Minnesota. Apparently. Minnesotians make many stops at taverns and bars between the wedding locale and the reception. And other topics.

Mommy groups can be such a pain. You end up at odds over whether it is better to schedule feedings or breastfeed on demand. Cosleepers versus crib sleepers. Formula versus breastmilk. Vaccines or not. These are major topics to mommies who have nothing better to discuss and they can, and do, create tension amongst the hardiest and most intelligent of women. It is as if we stop being intellectual beings and are now rated on how well we mother. Mothering forums are ripe with this kind of crap. But, this bowling evening was surprisingly mellow. Maybe it was the beer. (Full Sail Pale Ale to be exact)

Maybe all mothering groups should require am minimum of two beers before posting.

The high cost of being healthy

So today I bit the bullet and ordered Sigg bottles to replace our Nalgene ones. After a lot of research and a lot of time thinking about the cost (Sigg bottles run about $15 each, minimum), I did it. I ordered 6! 6 Sigg bottles and 4 replacement lids costs





$150!

I kid you not. I just spent $150 on 6 water bottles. It just kills me to spend this much on water bottles but I can no longer deal with the anxiety every time I drink from a Nalgene bottle or, even worse, a store-bought bottle of water. The constant, nagging fear of ingesting endocrine disruptors got to me. I am not even sure about what that means but on Motheringdotcommune, and other websites, this is a very big deal. Here is an article from 7th Generations website.

My next venture is to buy more Pyrex storage dishes to replace our rubbermaid and glassware to replace our plastic drinking glasses. Off to Target we go!

mothering boards suck

Why do mothering boards suck ? The mommy wars? Is that what it is? What the hell is that anyway? I think that is just some made up term that gets us watching morning tv and buying stupid parenting books. I mean, I could care less if you want to work and put your kids in daycare and I don't. That does not make us enemies. I could care less if you want to let your kid cry himself to sleep. I am not going to do that and I sure as hell don't want you to try to talk me into that, but I don't care if you do it. I can still talk to you. I could even be friends with you if we can agree to disagree and be respectful about it.

But on mothering boards, there is no disagreeing. There is only war. War of words. Circumcision is genital mutiliation. Crying it out is child abuse. Formula is junk food. Vaccinations are not natural. Crunchiness is not a measure of a cookie's worth but a parents. Mamas put up polls and post quizzes to measure each other's worth and the one with the highest score wins. What the hell is wrong with leaving other people alone unless they specifically ask for advice? If a person posts a question about vaccinations, stating they are pro vaccination, then the anti-vax crowd should just back the hell off. If someone wants to know more about extended breastfeeding, by all means tell her. But, if she is posting to ask about how to wean her 9 month old, then the lactivists have no right to barrage her their opinions.

And, what the hell is it supposed to mean that a vaccine is not natural? Insulin pumps aren't natural but they save lives! Computers aren't natural but the lunatic who spends every waking hour at the mothering board with a stupid siggy line "vaccines are not natural" just does not see the irony in that. Or maybe she does. Maybe she is so ignorant of how the world works that she cannot see the forest for the trees. The world is full of natural things that can kill us: Snakes, diseases, falling trees, mudslides, tornados. And humans have created a lot of lifesaving devices that are not natural: insulin pumps, IV lines, needles, incubators, medicines. But, I guess it is preferred by the "natural living" zealots that we revert to living in a cave so we can all truly be natural.


Don't get me wrong. There is a lot of good to be found on a mothering board. But, there are a lot of noxious weeds in that forest.

Blogging and boarding

So, here I am, blogging again. I tried it once before and decided it was a waste of time. The only people who responded were not kind in their words and I was sensitive. No more. I am blogging again because I have something to say.

Boarding - parenting boards to be specific - are fun, when they are supportive, kind, lively, helpful or in any way enjoyable. But, that is not what they are always. They can be sources of great misery. What is it about women that we draw the lines so severely with regards to who is in our group and who is not. Particularly with the act of mothering, those lines are sharply drawn and the division can be wide. So what if you don't let your baby ever cry a bit and someone else lets her baby cry for five minutes so she can have a pee? So freakin' what? It does not make either one a better parent. So what if she uses time outs for her 3 year old and you practice unconditional parenting? So freakin' what? There is, on the screen, no difference between your parenting that is tangible or meaningful. And yet mothers form these dividing lines and rant and spew jargon at each other until someone gets their feelings hurt. And, what does the board do? They tighten the rules, making it harder and harder to have a conversation. Where the participants should toughen up and learn to live with each other's differences or switch forums, the board imposes rules so arbitrary that it is impossible to understand what you can and cannot do. And, you take a chance and voice your opinion about someone else's rampaging and you get suspended. For asking a question! What the hell is wrong with this world that you cannot ask a question? And how in the hell can people adequately police respect when there is no common agreement on it? The board police should ban trolls and make rules about what the board represents but shut the hell up when it comes to defining and policing respect. Either do it for every individual the way they see it or don't do it at all.